Michelle:

Okay, fantastic. All right, so very big. Welcome to Angela. Thank you for joining me today. How are you?

 

Angela:

Pretty good. How are you doing?

 

Michelle:

I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm excited to talk to you. So I would love to hear a little bit about how you would talk about yourself. We'll go into more stuff about your background, but yeah, who are you? Let our listeners know.

 

Angela:

Well, I'm Angela. I currently live in Spain, so… definitely still need to work on my Spanish. Thankfully, I speak Filipino and English, which definitely helps, even though I stumble every day, just having to do daily activities in Spanish, it still helps. And my dominant language right now is English. Recently I was with family and they were commenting on how, oh, why don't you speak this and that and as a whole, the 120 languages of the Philippines.

 

Michelle:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's always interesting when the family context shifts the linguistic environment. So I think what would be so helpful is a family could just be quiet sometimes personally and just comment less on juggling multiple languages is exhausting as it is. Yeah. I am going to just go through your bio for a second because I think I saw that you say you have a smattering of Vietnamese and Swahili. Can you talk a little bit about that?

 

Angela:

Yeah, so I've been living abroad for 15 years, and most of that has been in Vietnam, but sadly my Vietnamese is horrific because I can't really hear the tones. I can probably read a little better than speak Vietnamese, but yeah, I mean, you speak a tonal language, so you probably know how other people deal with this. So I'm constantly, if I'm speaking in Vietnamese, I constantly have to try all the different tones just to see if one of them might actually be the right one. So that's me. With my Vietnamese, I'm pretty much, I think the level of maybe a five-year-old child. I know my colors, numbers, I know my animals and a lot of food. Food is very important to me. So I speak a lot of different languages when it comes to food, but that's it. And Swahili is because I lived in Tanzania for a time, but my Swahili is more kind of transactional. I can kind of tell someone where I live, how to get there or whatever, but I didn't really, so I used to teach English, but I didn't teach young kids that much when I was in Tanzania, so I didn't really pick up a lot of Swahili that way, which is how I picked up my Vietnamese.

 

Michelle:

Yeah. What was it English teaching that brought you to both of those countries? Or was it other life things?

 

Angela:

Yeah. Well, there's a little bit of backstory about that. I really wanted to get out of the Philippines, not because I don't like the Philippines, but just because I felt like I wanted to travel. But the best way to do it is to live somewhere and work there, because it's just not very easy to go through immigration in the Philippines for Filipinos. So yeah, I ended up going to Vietnam and teaching was the first job I fell into because it was something I could do, and then realized I actually liked it. So I ended up maybe two years later, two years after I'd already taught English, I decided, okay, I'm actually going to pay for a course and go all in. I could finally afford it. So I have a certificate to teach English to adults and to kids.

 

Michelle:

Okay. So that is something I actually will say I overlap with because I was working before doing my certification, and I don't know your perspective on this. I personally felt like I didn't have the appreciation. Sorry for a second. I need to clear my throat. Oh my God, I'm in my closet right now. It's fantastic. But before doing my certification, I didn't actually, I think feel it was necessary unless I wanted to be in a formal classroom environment. But doing it, I realized, my God, what a gift to have already worked inside of the industry before actually going through the material because I would not have appreciated the course at all. Yeah. What did you think?

 

Angela:

Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that because, so… during my CELTA, I did notice that some of my classmates who had never taught English before doing the course really had no clue whatsoever. And also because they were native English speakers, they had no idea about grammar and things like that. But because I had been teaching Vietnamese students for two years, they had taught me grammar because they would constantly ask me questions, even knowing how to transcribe pronunciation, that sort of thing. It was just something that they made me do so much by the time I did the course. It's like, oh, actually this is not difficult because I knew how to do it. I still had to unlearn some things, of course, because you pick up different things from wherever you've been teaching teachers, you've probably seen, teach. But yeah, I think the course was valuable, but I think, yeah, it's true. I think it made it more valuable because I'd already been teaching before that,

 

Michelle:

Which I think some people actually, how do I put this? They think that the course is going to qualify them, and I almost feel that it's better to talk about it in a professional development way. You take the course because you want to expand what you're already doing. If you don't start, you won't be able to actually push into that expansion. It's going to be, I don't know, archiving information and then later needing to draw from it when you actually begin. And so the best way I would personally, I would say is just start for a lot of people. You don't have to wait to be qualified. It doesn't mean you are qualified. Let's clarify that piece. But it does mean that you don't have to necessarily put so many barriers to beginning. So I would love if you could talk a little bit about your experiences as an English teacher working in the field. It can be abroad or whatnot, but tell me everything that you feel in this regard.

 

Angela:

I guess, I don't know. One memory that really stands out is perhaps when I first started teaching, I was 24…And some of my students were in their forties, in their fifties, and they were asking me for advice, and they really wanted… They were listening to me intently, and I was just shocked. I go, “I thought I was just going to teach them the language.” Why is it… I don't know how it is in other countries, but in Vietnam, and definitely in Tanzania as well, people usually look up to teachers. And so I thought it was flattering that they were listening to me, but at the same time I thought, oh wow, this is a huge responsibility. I really need to be careful about what I tell them. And I would always try to say things like, “This is what I know, or what I think is, I'm not very sure you should try it first, and maybe you should ask other people.” Because there are some people who are perfectly happy to just, oh, okay, my teacher said this, I'm going to do it. And that terrified me because I just would've thought, I don't know, do I have enough experience to even be talking about these things? Because they would ask me things like, oh, how about what if I want to study in the US? And I go, I didn't study in the US. I know I sound American, but I didn't study in the US so I can't really help you on that. But then they just always thought, oh, you're a foreigner. You must talk to other foreigners. You can get us this information. So yeah, it's a lot of responsibility being a teacher. It's fun. It can be fun, but it's also kind of heavy at times.

 

Michelle:

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't know or underestimate the emotional burden that goes, and it's not only emotional, it's just the energetic burden on people in these roles. And you're right that I think in many, at least my personal experience has shown me that people in many countries believe that teachers hold a position of authority. Teachers know what they're talking about. Teachers are there for a reason. And when you're like, I mean, I wasn't even 24 when I started, I don't even remember I was a teenager because I was still trying to do this to make my resume look good if I'm being really, really honest with you. And I was like, yeah, I'm a Mandarin speaker. I'm serving the Mandarin speaking community, blah, blah, blah. I love helping people. And you're absolutely correct that in that moment you realize, oh my goodness, these are people who are trying to change their lives, trying to settle into new countries, trying to go for new opportunities.

 

Who am I to be talking to them, giving them life advice? It's not just about the language. It's like, how do you integrate into society? I hadn't even had a real job yet at that point. And people were like, how do I interview? And I'm like, I don't know. I think you just say this. And they're like, yeah, okay. And they're writing down notes. So this burden, I think it's everyone's individual on the professional side, individual decision to decide how they handled it. I do think that you and I realized that teachers, people in this instructional setting play an important role in shaping the pads of other people. I do also think that there are some that then take that a little too far and go, oh my God, I have all this power. I must know so much. Right. Have you worked with those people before? I have. It's been a little bit of a nightmare.

 

Angela:

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I laugh about this with my friends who are also in ELT, but you just kind of get all sorts of people because there are people who do go into teaching because they really want to teach. But I mean, I was also one of those people who just did it because it was something I could do. So there's just all sorts of people who end up educating people, and you don't even know what their actual purposes are. And before you know it, you have so much power. And it can be crazy because there are times where my parents would come up to me asking me what I think they should do with their kids. And I go, I don't even have kids, and I didn't even go to school for early education. So all these things that I'm telling you are anecdotal, but for them it's so important that, oh, I need to hear the teacher's side on this. And in the staff room, you end up talking to other people and they go like, oh, I just told them this just because I thought it was funny. And you go like, oh my God, you never know how far that's going to be taken by whoever heard that advice. So yeah, with great power comes great responsibility.

 

Michelle:

Absolutely. I think it's hard to find that balance, and I don't know that there, because there is something to be said about taking too much of that responsibility inside and to feel the weight of it. I know when I started (We)Cultivate, and this is after, I mean I was doing part-time, English teaching, and actually all the things that I criticize now I am guilty of before. So I'll talk about that in the future. But all of these different moments that then brought me to creating this company, I think even more than I expected, I realized going into this full-time, I cannot seriously be saying whatever. I cannot just be out there promoting some wonderful new idea. Even though I do think some of my programs and my ideas are innovative and cool, they cannot seriously be misrepresented. And yeah, I think that's why it's so cool. We connected. It's cool. In the conversations we've had, some of the stuff that you've said, I just find so necessary at this time because very few professionals in the field are willing to externally, I think, speak on the problems in the field and the problems in the world. So I am wondering if we can go into that. What sorts of, and I've seen stuff that you've written, but what sorts of things would you highlight as what's wrong right now? What we could improve perhaps.

 

Angela:

Well, one is of course, I think this is something that we've spoken about when you're talking about specific things where you need to know when to generalize and when not to. I think that's a really big thing because I don't know, for me, language has always been super important because I don't know, as a kid, my mom would always tease me that, oh, my daughter is a philosopher. She's always thinking about what this means and what that means. And because it can, language, language is great because it allows us to communicate with each other, but at the same time, it can be so misunderstood. The moment that you say you flip a little switch, you add a little word, and then it becomes totally different. And so of course, this is also something that I know that when we say things like, don't do this, we automatically delete the no, and we just do whatever has been mentioned by the teacher, by the adult, or by authority, whatever. That's just how the human brain works. So how we teach, not just what we teach, but how we teach, it also really needs to be carefully thought about. I mean, I'm all for, I'm that sort of teacher who I was never very good at planning things before the class, or I could plan it, but it's for a specific group of people. I need to see them to know what I'm going to do.

So I wasn't that sort of teacher who would be planning endlessly. I kind of have a loose plan and I go in there and I just do it. But I do think that what happens is we just kind of need more, I suppose… After teaching a class, let's say you figure out what you did, what you did wrong, how that worked, and try to remember that or maybe take note of it for the next class, because then that's how it can actually be useful, where you go, oh, you know what? Because I didn't plan it out, or maybe I didn't say this. How can I express it better the next time? I mean, earlier you were saying the things that you criticize were things that you were guilty of years ago, but we're allowed to become better. We're allowed to improve.

 

Michelle:

Amen.

 

Angela:

And because of that, that's why I think self-reflection is so important because it doesn't mean that, oh, I did a terrible job, but you know what, I can still do it better next time. And I dunno, I was perfectly happy to, let's say if I know that I taught something that was incorrect, I'll go back the next class and be like, oh my God, by the way, everyone, you know what? Last time I told you this, it's not actually correct. It's this, that, whatever. I think that for one, it makes teachers look human as well, that, oh, you can, of course we also make mistakes, but instead of covering it up, we need to be able to talk about it gracefully to accept corrections from students as well. And just be like, look, I may have misrepresented myself, or I may have said something wrong the last time. I think that we can be kind to ourselves, but also be honest with our students. And I think that sometimes it's like, oh, you know what? I'm just going to say that I'm going to stand by what I said just because I've already said it and I can't be bothered to correct myself. I don't really believe that.

 

Michelle:

The amount of people I see, and even online, which online, it's a different playing field. You have records, you have the receipts, right? So why are you trying to stand by what you said? When it is blatantly wrong, instead of just realizing that's a growth area you probably need to look at. Personally, I realized that especially as an adult language learner later on in life, I really realized, oh my God, this is a huge problem in the field. This is not just something that is hitting at the early education level. This is an industry problem. This is a culture problem. You were given this position of authority and responsibility, but then without the accountability, this is so frustrating to see, but I'm always flipping between professional side, learner side professionals. I'm just like, my brain is exploding watching this happen. And there's so many things I think I want to say… I mean you've said them all beautifully.

 

And I think in a really, really personal way, because this is, I think something we all experience when maybe not all, but many of us experience as we go through our own path in this field. But we are talking about it now. I do think we are bringing it out into the open, and there is so much power in that I don't want to criticize for criticism's sake. I want to talk about how we can transform what currently exists. So before going, I really want to talk with you about what you think is going to come in the future. But before going there, let's jump back into the past for a second because I don't think a lot of listeners know or can tell that you did not grow up in a native English speaking household. Is that right?

 

Angela:

Yeah, I dunno. This was my parents' experiment when I was a kid and lovely when my sister was born. So my sister is almost seven years older than I am, and when she was born, my parents decided that her first language would be English. So for the first six years of her life, she only spoke English. And I guess when I was born, that's when she started learning how to speak Filipino.

 

My first language was Filipino, but at the same time, my parents would switch from one language to the other. It was up to them basically. If they chose today to be English, then it was going to be English for all of us. It was Filipino, then Filipino for one. When I was younger, I very, I really don't like what we call “Taglish,” which is a combination of Filipino in English. I find it really unpleasant because my parents raised me to just speak one language at a time. There could be a word here and there, but more or less it should just be whatever language they say is language for the day. However, even though I say that I grew up bilingual that way at the same time, I remember being about six years old, and I suppose I was watching TV and looking at a child my age, probably in the US and she was speaking in a way that I couldn't. So I have a distant memory of not being able to speak fluently in English in the way that a kid my age could. The difference was that I was reading far above my age because I have this kind of thing where I'm kind of addicted to anything written. I need to be able to read it.

 

So I would read everything that I could. And most of it wasn't English because there weren't when I was a kid anyway. I'm sure now it's different, and I've seen that there are a lot more books written in Filipino. But when I was a kid, most of the reading material would be in English, so I could read them all, but I wanted to be that kid. I wanted to be able to switch to English that way. And so something that I started doing was, well, my dad worked abroad, so I would send him, I had a little cassette tape that I would send him cassette tapes that I would record and I would read him stories.

 

I don't know if my dad actually listened to them. I would seriously just read him any kind of story that I was reading at that time, and I would read it out loud with all the different voices and kind of the narrator and all that. And I would just talk to him because we didn't have a phone at that time. So that was the way that I would communicate with my dad. And my dad, interestingly enough, many, many years later, I was already an adult and he told me, you know what, the first few cassette tapes you sent me, your anguish wasn't very good, but I was already an adult. So I go like, wow. I mean, great that you're telling me, but I'm really glad that you didn't tell me when I was a child, because I think that that worked to my advantage because I was never afraid of practicing English with my dad doing it that way. And by the time I was eight, I remember because I moved to a different school, I was already English and Filipino. I could switch easily by then. So yeah, I suppose it took me, I don't know if it took me two years, but I just remember it being at that age where it was finally just set that I could choose when to actually just speak in Filipino and when in English. But before that, it was a different story.

 

Michelle::

Yeah. I am curious to know if your parents, just because I have, I think small clues as I talk to people and see what went on in different parts of the world, I'm curious to know how they were first introduced to English or if they were required to learn it in some way, and then how? Because for sure, I think it's part of the story and why they felt it was so important to transmit to you.

 

Angela:

So I mean, in the Philippines, English is taught, I mean, I say this… not really knowing exactly what my parents' experience was. Okay, but this is what I think would happen is, at the age of eight or something like that, that's when… there's more of the subjects would be taught in English. Before that, a lot of the subjects are taught in Filipino except for the English subject. And then maybe second or third grade, at least for my case, everything was pretty much switched to English except for the Filipino subject and history.

 

So yeah, everything else, I have no clue how to do math in Filipino. Math is only in English for me, but for my parents. So my mom, well, my mom's hearing is also going, so maybe that's also a problem these days. But my mom definitely didn't speak as much English as much as my dad did. My dad was pretty much polyglot. He spoke a lot of different languages and he grew up in the countryside, so he didn't really have, when he lived in the countryside, he didn't get as much opportunities as kids who grew up in Manila, did. My mom grew up in the city near the capitol, but what my dad did was as soon as he could go to Manila, he just tried to learn as much as he could. And so for him, me and my mom, education was very, very important. And in the Philippines, it's just important if you want to work in, if you want to have a better job, English was always essential.

 

Michelle:

Right. Did you get any crap is the only word coming to my head right now from your peers, from, I'm thinking when you were a kid and you having the exposure to this language, and we're going to call it privilege, but it's a very thin line here that we're making in terms of having a family environment that encouraged this to then later on, think about your future, et cetera. Were you ever treated in a certain way by your schoolmates, classmates simply because you had this interest?

 

Angela:

Yeah, I mean, definitely. So my school, the second elementary school that I went to when I was eight years old, they had this English speaking policy.

 

And I love doing it. I go like, fine, tell me to speak English. I'm going to switch to English. But everyone else, well, most people tried to get away with speaking in Taglish or they would just speak less. And as soon as a teacher was out of the room, they would speak in Filipino. And I got a lot of flack for sticking to it, but at the same time, I just really thought, what's so wrong with it? I just couldn't figure out why I shouldn't do it. So even though I heard that from most people at the same time, there were some things that we did in school, some activities where it's always that sort of thing where they made fun of me, but at the same time, if there was some sort of competition in school and somebody needs to speak English to go San Angela, and then they're all like, oh yeah, we're so proud of you, but you were just making fun of me the other day. But nevermind that I just continued on and I mean, I still found I was kind of bullied, but I still had friends, so I didn't really care very much.

 

Michelle:

Yeah, I ask only because I didn't live exactly the same thing. I lived, I think a different version of the same, I think it's always kids jealousy everywhere. But I have come to see, especially as I've lived in other countries across the world, and of course my friends who have kids and whatnot, and in my own personal family situation, my partner has kids. And so I realize, wow, there is a lot of this language-based jealousy that, especially for English, that I think, and you mentioned that you're happy your dad didn't tell you that you didn't speak so well or that you didn't express so well when you're a kid. I realized that there's a lot of this mental fortitude that has to come early on for kids to stick to their guns, to continue cultivating their love for the language. Because everywhere they go, it can be in school, it can be in their communities, it could be at home.

 

They will receive some sort of judgment… shame. And I think it's particularly tough as a kid. I think as an adult, we know how to handle criticism hopefully by now. And so it's kind of like, oh, you're going to judge me. All right, whatever. So what is it to you as a kid? I think it's really, really hard. So what I want to say is I just want to recognize, I guess the fact that you had to go through all that and to come out the other side, not just working in the field and thriving in it from my perspective, but also getting to the point where you are able to bring in, I think, those deep personal experiences to every single interaction that you have with other people. So the reason maybe why you cared so much about your students in Vietnam or why you went that step further? I do think it comes from empathy. I think it comes from being in that position at one point in your life,

 

Angela:

For sure. I get it when students say, oh, I don't get enough time to practice English, or I feel embarrassed when I speak English in front of peers or in front of people who have the same mother tongue, and I had to go, well, you kind of have to choose. I get it, because I know that it's not fun when people are saying not very nice things when you try to speak in another language, but at the same time I go, it has to be your choice. If you really want it, then you can either just find people who are like-minded. You can ignore them, you can stay in the library like I did. I know there are ways around it, but I do get it, and I can't tell them that, oh, that's not the way to do it. You're doing it wrong. You're not doing it wrong. It's…that's how you feel. You need to deal with it. Because… Yeah, I mean, I was recently visiting family in Italy, and my uncles and my aunts, they've got these grandkids who are growing up speaking mostly in Italian at home. They hear a lot. They hear two different languages from the Philippines, but at the same time, they can't really communicate well in it. And I mean, I hear my aunts and uncles kind of teasing them or making fun of them for not being able to speak it. And I go, well, you didn't really raise them in a way that they could use both languages, so why blame the children who right now they're just trying to live in their world, which is all Italian. So yeah, I think that there are just so many different sorts of stories and situations that we can't completely tell somebody that, oh, you could have done this, or you should have learned this other language, or you should have used this, but you didn't. I don't know. It's just very difficult because I know that it was difficult to choose to be bilingual,

 

Michelle:

And it's a conscious choice you had to fight for. I think again and again, I think I surprised people also when I say that I was made fun of in school for my English because the way I was using it, even being born and raised completely right in the us, it's like as pure as it gets for some people, if you take the international perspective, I still received crap because of the fact that I didn't use it in the same way, and I had to make the conscious choice to actually speak this in a certain way. And what’s really interesting is, in my family, we have different levels and ways of using both languages. So Mandarin, Chinese and English, and I don't even think there's a person. I don't think we came to the same conclusion. I don't think between us, we speak English. Okay, so you'll hate me for this because I do mix the languages a lot, haha!

 

I love it. Actually, now that French has entered my life, I mix the three and it causes so much confusion. But I love the mental exercise, but I do think that it's something I realized. I realized only a few years ago how much I had to really, I think it's unconscious at the time, but you're like, I want this. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to keep holding onto it. I'm not going to let it go. I'm not going to let anything or anyone distract me or derail me from this. That takes so much strength. So let's jump, because we're running out of time. I want to go more, but I actually, I realize I want to take some time with this. Can we talk a little bit about the future? Can we talk about what you can imagine for us? We talked a little bit about growth areas for the industry, but let's also frame it in the context of AI has now entered our lives, and while it is a wonderful tool, technology is advancing to the point where you do have many learners who feel that they can just substitute learning with technology, I think we can agree that that's not going to happen anytime soon… What other things do you see for the path down the road?

 

Angela:

I mean, recently I was just talking with a couple of high school kids who are very proud to tell me that their current favorite website is chat, GPT, which is fair enough, it is a fun tool to use. I've played with it a few times as well, but I just think that for the future to actually, I don't know, look brighter for everyone involved is that definitely teachers really need to step up their game and learn how to use ai, but also how to teach, how to teach students how to use it better, smarter instead of just using it as a crutch to actually use it as a tool that they can manipulate for it to be able to get them the results they need. Because I mean, my joke with my students before was always like, I'm trying to teach you the tool so that you can manipulate the language because teacher Angela is not going to be in your ear all the time. But then of course, here comes ai, which could potentially be in your ear all the time.

 

Angela:

But then I go, do you really want… I suppose, I mean it really depends on what your priorities are. There will be people who would want to put all their effort into learning other things, and language could be, I dunno the least of their problems, who knows. But for those who really want to continue fully communicating without, not really, without the use of technology, that's stupid because it's something that can help us, but not using it, not being dependent on it. So there's kind of that. I think that there is, I don't know. I feel like I'm hopeful it's the same way with calculators before and now we can use it, but it doesn't mean that everyone has forgotten how to do math. A lot of people maybe have, but let's be self-included occasionally. So it’s the same thing with languages. I do think that it's still possible for us to use technology. I love technology, but at the same time, still be able to communicate without it.

 

Angela:

Yeah, I think at some point people will find their happy medium where they're able to use these as tools, but not exactly, just depend on it. And yeah, I think it'll be fine. It'll be a lot of work for sure. It'll be a lot of work, but I don't think it's going to completely take away, let's say educators jobs, but educators will have to fight for it as well.

 

Michelle:

Right. Yeah, I like that you kind of talked about what I see as the shared responsibility between educators and learners, because I think there's a lot of this talk of, okay, so wonderful parallel that I make also with calculator use. Now no calculators, you must do everything by hand, right? Because if you don't, you're not going to appreciate it. You're not going to know. I really think that there's space for both. There's space for the old school and the new school methods. However, we can't also expect the education side just to stay where it is. We have to adapt. We have to adapt our materials, our approaches, and I do think that's where there is this lack of, maybe it's training or maybe it's something, it's like professional training and development is where I want to talk about it. I think, I don't know. I don't actually keep up with a lot of these large organizations and conferences.

 

I do find that it's a lot of the repackaging of the same or it's trying to sell some sort of new method or framework and get everyone to ascribe to that and then just become little, what is it called when you go door to door to sell, but you basically just, instead of makeup, you're selling the newest teaching method. I do have this hope, I guess, that eventually people will come to their own individual, I don't know, realization on this and just say, okay, I'm just going to take things into my own hands when I'm working with this person. I'm going to take a very conscious self-aware approach to how I interact with them. ai, not withstanding, right? I don't think we're going back. Do you know what I mean? ChatGPT has entered and it is not leaving.

 

Angela:

It's not going to disappear anytime soon.

 

Michelle:

Yeah. Yeah. It's very interesting when it gets philosophical. Also, I don't know if you've had these experiences recently, but just talking in the language space with some people who are language learners who really do believe, not just that AI will replace all of learning, but I see in what they write and how they talk, that they've never made the connection between language and communication. They've never seen that. How they use even their own language is not replaceable, cannot actually be reproduced in the same way. So what other things do you think we as a world should move into? I mean, we talked about so many, but are there other areas that you think we're overlooking?

 

Angela:

Well, I mean you've basically said it. It's looking at language as part of communication, not as an entity by itself, not just, oh, yeah. I think I remember an old employer who said something to that affect me. He said, oh, our students just want to say these things in English instead of Vietnamese, but they don't need to know why they're doing it. And I just go, how does that even happen if you don't know why you're doing it? How are you supposed to be able to fully express yourself of that language

 

Michelle:

Without that personal connection, right? Just cut it off. Just be a robot and just repeat, right?

 

Angela:

Yeah. And I thought that that was really odd. And I go maybe say, I don't know, at a very basic level, maybe you don't really need to know exactly why you're saying everything you are, but to be forever ignorant in it. It's just, I don't know. It's something that I couldn't understand, and I'm still definitely against that. We should really think of language as our tool for communication. It's our tool to understand each other. And I mean, that's always what the world needs more of. If we don't communicate better, if we don't listen better, then how are we ever going to get anywhere?

 

Michelle:

Yeah. I think English presents a challenge that I haven't found to be at the same level, at least for other languages, simply because it's the international language of today. It's the one that so many people speak in so many different ways. You have countries that have English as an official language without it being one of those, I guess we can consider the quintessential native speaking countries. I have a whole thing I want to say on this. It's not the time, but I find it presents different types of barriers and yet at the same time opens up so many other doors because you have all of these things. So it's a double-edged sword. It basically, I mean, it helps and hurts at the same time, but it's also something that I don't think is going away. I think all of us kind of, there's sometimes talk online, let's bring back Esperanto!

 

Let's, let's try to create a new international language that's equitable! Oh goodness, the committee to form an international commission or committee to agree on all of this. Do you think that's going to be fast? Do you think we are going to just all be like, all right, so France gets 5% and Germany gets, and how much representation can we actually have? So I just want to thank you for joining me today to talk about all these things. Last kind of bonus topic, I suppose I just wanted to throw in here you are in Spain. So you mentioned at the beginning that you are working on Spanish. Would you like to share how you're working, what your kind of approach has been, things that are working for you or you've tried?

 

Angela:

Well, I mean, at one point I attended classes for three weeks in Madrid, which is not the city where I live, just so I went there because I felt I could actually practice it better if, I dunno if I was someplace where they had intensive classes and a lot of activities that you had to attend in Spanish, go to museums and stuff like that. And that kind of worked for me. But honestly, right now all I do is do language exchanges. I know that for some people, people always say, oh, to be fully immersed in a language, you just move to a country that speaks it and you'll be fine. You'll get it all. It's not like that. Every day I say, “how much is this? Thank you. Bye.” So I can say those things perfectly!

 

Michelle:

“Sorry” “Excuse me” “Thank you” “Where is the train station?”

 

Angela:

You know where they go? Like, oh wow, you can say that perfectly. Go like, yeah. I mean I have to do it every day, but for me to be able to actually practice chatting about different things, I have language exchange partners because the shopkeeper doesn't have time to talk to me about my day. I don't know. I guess here they do talk to shopkeepers about their day, but in really fast Spanish, so I'm not there yet. So yeah, language exchange is what I do these days, should probably do more, but I don't know. That's all the energy I have for this.

 

Michelle:

Yeah. Do you have different people that you talk about different topics with or is it more general? Because in my own personal experiences, I realized, okay, some people are more interesting when they talk about certain things. And so I started to organize it that way.

 

Angela:

Yes and no. Yeah, I mean there are certain things that I specifically talk to specific people about, but then I mean, my goal is at some point I need to be comfortable talking about many different things to whoever I need to. Then I let it develop organically. I more or less have some topics that I usually talk about. Say my friend's parents, they're my parents' age and I hang out with them, and they're usually specific topics that we veer towards, and I'm helping one of them learn English, but he always wants me to translate everything from Spanish, which is a mental exercise that I didn't expect to be doing, but, so I kind of have specific things that I reserve for some people. Yeah.

 

Michelle:

Yeah. Well, very cool. Thank you so much for talking today. It looks gorgeous, by the way, this is a fake background because it is, I mean, we're in different time zones at the moment, but your sunlight, I'm just so jealous. This looks like a beautiful space behind you.

 

Angela:

Yeah, well, at least now I think I've got 30 more minutes of sun. So yeah, I just thought it would be nicer to sit here than usually I would be right over there. I work over there. I need a blank wall for my,

 

Michelle:

Yeah, yeah. But your background actually looks like a virtual background that I have. I have to put this on. I don't have this. I thought about it earlier.

 

Angela:

Go like, oh, there's a chair over the boat.

 

Michelle:

No, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Thank you for sharing your space, your time, your words, your energy. I really feel, so the word is blessed. I'm trying to not be so cliche about it. It's basically the idea that we just don't know who we're going to come across online and we could all for sure be there being like, yeah, fantastic. I agree. But to find people who are willing to actually speak on these things, to take an hour out of their very busy day in Spain to come and to talk about their life. I just appreciate you so much. So thank you for being here,

 

Angela:

And I've really enjoyed it. I knew from, I think the first time I found your account that there would be so much to talk about. So this is wonderful. I didn't expect it to be recorded, but… haha!

 

Michelle:

Well, yeah, things are important to say and then to save and then to share. So this is what we do. Okay, thanks so much!